Yoga with Nevine Michaan, Founder of Katonah Yoga
Nevine Michaan joins The Ode to Joy Podcast to talk about Yoga's place in processing grief and tuning our bodily instrument to come into greater Joy.
Nevine and Elena discuss the following:
the recipe for JOY
Organizing sensations
Joy in the midst of a hard winter
"Ananda" and how to measure up
Asana as Origami
Wu wei -- an effortless effort
The Magic Square -- as a menu
Mediating Polarity by placing yourself in the middle of the Trinity
The Breath of the Seasons
Siddhis - great magical powers
Learning how to play well with the mind and body
Playing with Ritual to process grief
About Nevine:
"Born in Egypt in 1954, Nevine moved to New York at the age of three. In her early 20’s, while studying history and comparative religion at Vassar College, she discovered meditation. She understood that there is a function, a formality and a fit to the universe and that yoga is a tool, a technique – a practice with repetition which gives us the opportunity to participate in life with intelligence and joy.
Nevine started a daily practice in NYC with renowned yoga instructor Allan Bateman in the 1970s and became fully immersed in what would become her life’s work. She began teaching Yoga in 1980, and founded the Katonah Yoga Center in Katonah, New York in 1986."
Learn with Nevine
Katonah Yoga
The Magic Square
Katonah Yoga Calendar
Find a local Kotonah Teacher
Follow on IG @katonahyogacenter
Buy your copy of Elena's book "Grieve Outside the Box"
Follow on IG @elenabox
Transcript
00:00.00
elenabox
Hello ladies and gentlemen and welcome to another episode of the ode to joy podcast. It is my supreme pleasure to welcome Naveen Mashan to the show today. Welcome Naveen.
00:15.68
Nevine
Thank you.
00:19.42
elenabox
I'm so happy you're here and for those of our listeners who don't know you you are the founder of Katona Yoga which is based in upstate New York and has since become really a worldwide phenomenon which is amazing what you've built. In fact. Ah, there are workshops happening here in Paris as well. Um, so you're just a tour de force and I'm so happy that you came on the show today. So seriously. Thank you so much for joining.
00:46.71
Nevine
Thank you I You know I think one of the reasons um the material that I play with is so out there right now is that the world is open source and people have an opportunity to learn anything so it's very exciting. That's why. What you do is very exciting because it's really about the fact that if people are literate they can tap in. So Thank you? yeah.
01:10.66
elenabox
Um, just a part of a worldwide network of magical magicians and people coming together and weaving this basically like a web of knowledge and and and sharing and how wonderful that we're able to connect and I'm here in Paris and you're there in New York and here we are having this conversation.
01:24.10
Nevine
Um, it's amazing. Yes, yes, I'm very impressed.
01:26.50
elenabox
So I Want to introduce very impressed with this amazing technology. Um, so to introduce the topic of the day we are talking specifically about yoga obviously and what better person to bring on the show than naveen to speak about yoga and specifically what I'm curious about is how we can use. Um, you know you could call the system of yoga ah to basically navigate really really deep experiences like grief like huge change like loss any of these things um to come into greater Joy. Um, so I thought I would first just open up the conversation with you. Um, about what joy means to you when you think about Joy. Um, so.
02:11.60
Nevine
My Favorite? Well um so I start by thinking that um I engage in Metaphor because it is by virtue of all these different metaphors that eventually people can tap into. The chemistry the sensation of Joy. So So I like to play with recipes because I think when you follow a recipe and you know you know what you're up to like I'm going to bake this cake and you really follow a good recipe. Which allows you to calibrate an oven measure our proportions play with Molds you know that whole alchemy of production. Well at a certain point. The cake starts to smell good when you start you know, knowing your timing and you get taken out of the oven and eventually you sit down and eat the meal. With the cake. There is that real sensation of joy because joy is when you set up all these conditions and you achieve the well-being of it. So um, yeah, it's very sensational. A lot of yoga practice is about.
03:15.94
elenabox
Um.
03:18.40
Nevine
Understanding how to organize sensations. So you know it's in the midst it's always in the midst you know how does 1 find joy in the midst of a very hard winter. Well dress warmly make a fire stay inside play with a friend.
03:34.11
elenabox
Ah, you.
03:36.12
Nevine
Yeah, So there's that real understanding elementally that to achieve a state of well-being which I think is what joy is. It's that state of Bravo of the applause of feeling that one is the center and the vibration. Is vibrant right? 1 is a buoyant ball. So If you you know fall there's joy in the bounce back. So You know it is a calibration game and people can participate in achieving it. So um, yes I define it and then I find how do I get there.
04:10.26
elenabox
Um, right? I love that you bring that up because I think ah perhaps there's some common misconceptions around joy. Um I think perhaps some people think either you have it or you don't. Um, like maybe it's something you're born with and maybe some of us were just born. You know, maybe we're a laughing baby more than others. But I think it's it's a wonderful idea that you bring in of it's like calibrating the body. It's it's finding the right recipe to achieve that and I'd love to hear. Um. Your thoughts on the word Ananda could you ahla elaborate a little bit on the word ananda for us.
04:43.30
Nevine
Yes, well, you know it opens up the portal of a lot of hindu yoga right? because Ananda belongs to the hindu narrative and language to me is like 1 of the big keys right? And so Ananda in Hindu basically means joy. Right? So you have different cultures and different languages but the sensation that one wants is always the same everybody wants to be well-fed everyone wants to feel safe. Everyone wants to feel that um when they bake the cake it comes out well right? so.
05:03.29
elenabox
Um.
05:22.80
Nevine
A Danda is a cultural word and it means joy. But I don't think you have to curry flavor it I think you can have joy in any culture in any technique. The most important thing to get joy and this is so wellpoke by the hindus and by the buddhists.
05:26.34
elenabox
Um.
05:41.27
Nevine
Is really you have know how to measure up right? And that's why joy's calibrated. You don't get joy. Um, just because you bake a cake you get joy because you calibrate your oven and you bake the cake. Well right? So I like to think of Asana because I teach to love o in a practice like orami.
05:53.33
elenabox
So.
06:01.60
Nevine
And you know the big trick is really um, poorly made orgami really doesn't give you the joy a cup that doesn't hold water doesn't give you its magic. So there's tremendous magic in building techniques that work.
06:18.22
elenabox
Yeah.
06:19.93
Nevine
So um, yes I think joy is a state of being I think like you know the art of all yoga is acts of doing to achieve a state of being so in chinese theory. It's called Wu Wei and wuwei means effortless effort. But the big joke is under. It is what's known as yuwei which is effortful effort. So.
06:39.40
Nevine
First takes a lot of effort to learn to read and then it becomes effortless and then you get that next magic that it's about the subject so it takes I think a lot of work to measure up and to actually follow recipes and use time. Not the way you would like all the time but in ways that um will get you what you want? So um, yes, and joy is when you achieve well-being in the sense that I know recipes for disasters I know recipes for bitterness you know so ah.
07:04.88
elenabox
Um.
07:09.34
elenabox
Um.
07:15.65
Nevine
You know the trick is what are the best recipes for joy is put air in your tire put gas in your tank right? know how to read your mas put in your seat belt. So joy as a state comes when you've done a lot of work to get there.
07:33.43
elenabox
Um, and some of the you know one of the things that I love about your work is that you're really able to break things down into these systems and into these maps we had um Eva Georgie on the show recently and she really spoke about we're we're fans of eva.
07:44.46
Nevine
Um I believe but yes, investigate.
07:48.45
elenabox
And you know yes and she spoke about the importance of maps and really you know, creating sort of like a ah framework of of how you're moving through your life and um, picking and choosing the types of experiences that you want to have um.
07:54.52
Nevine
Oh hello.
08:04.97
elenabox
You know for a particular goal or for a particular moment if that makes sense. Um, and so I'd love for you for the listeners out there who are unfamiliar with your work I'd love for you to speak a little bit about the magic square because I feel like that's a wonderful sort of it's. 1 of the most beautiful gifts that you've given ah to the world. But if you could speak um to the magic of the magic square first and then I'll lead us into the next question after that.
08:33.43
Nevine
Okay, I'm going to try to do this very quickly and simply right? So um, the magic square I play with because there are tons of magic squares and actually I play with several right and you know one of the classic one is known as the 3 by 3 magic square.
08:38.29
elenabox
Um.
08:49.81
Nevine
Magic constant 15 and everything is code so magic squares a menu and once you know how to read the codes in the menu which are the numbers and the sequence then eventually you can take that code off the page and understand what it's telling you. And so there's a lot of meditative magic knowing how to read a code so 3 by 3 magic square divide space 9 ways right? There's a bottom. There's a middle There's a top so very easily you can divide yourself into fewer tree your root system your branches. And then your fruits you know. So you're playing with metaphor but the first game is easy to divide a hole into 3 parts a bottom a middle and a top so we do that not only in body games. But I'm going to be very quick because I feel bad moving too far into this but um. Want to play with two 2 different sort of metaphors one is the warp and the wolf at the tic tac toe board which is going to be our magic square and the other one is the sphere of influence which is how the mind is concentrat in radiant and that's when when you play with an eight spoke wheel. You're playing with the same code that you're playing when you're playing with a tic-tacc toe board grid because you put yourself in the middle. There'll be a compass of North Southh East West Northeast southwest Northwest Southeast but 1 radiates in the sphere because time is spherical and you have to know how to be.
10:20.45
Nevine
Within the framework of the spheres of time right? and so that's why a lot of the work in grief and in sadness in some ways plays with the sphere of concentration and radiance and the spheres of time. There's a spring There's a summer. There's an autumn. There's a winter these are spherical pieces of the Map. So when we play with the maps that way you can play with great natures times and the sphere that surrounds when you play with the tic tac toe board. You've basically taken like a map of America. And thinking here's a map of fifty states and I'm going to give you a map of Nine States so the 9 states are states on the bottom 3 of them states in the middle. 3 of them states on the top 3 of them 3 of your states are on your left 3 of your states are on your right and 3 are your states in the middle. And when we play orgami we fold the middle so you don't see it because you can always see the right eye and the left eye but the third eye is the mind processing. You can always see the right hand and the left hand. But the third hand is the joy of the applause and the concentration and radiance of fulfillment of doing what. In the moment it supports the whole well-being right? and then 3 in the bottom which is gonna be your root game so we're dividing space in such ways that eventually you know how to read the maps how to use the maps because Map isn't just a map.
11:40.35
elenabox
Um, me.
11:51.26
Nevine
Ah, the big trick with the good map is to reveal territory so you can find out where you are where you want to get to and what's your best route and that's why it's our your Gps system when we play with glands right? Knowing how to read maps is on the third floor.
12:01.70
elenabox
Um.
12:09.10
Nevine
Because it's really rising above being the driver in the car piece. You know where you want to get to figuring out a map and then getting back in the driver's seat knowing that the vehicle is gonna be your bottom floor. Your steering is gonna be your second floor and your map skills and. Not forgetting is going to be on your top floor has that for like.
12:31.40
elenabox
I Love it I Love it. Fantastic brief explanation for anyone who's listening dear listener If you're like this sounds amazing I need more. Ah, we will list all of the links on ah the show notes so you can see the visual of it. You can get on board and just everything you've created is is so beautiful.
12:40.52
Nevine
Um, thank you.
12:48.63
elenabox
Um, so that leads me to my next question. Ah, which is you know? Of course we have these recipes for joy. But I'd love for you to elaborate a little bit on your recipes for how to be with um you know, sort of the darker feelings of life. The Angerness the the anger the bitterness.
13:07.45
Nevine
9
13:07.97
elenabox
Ah, sort of those types of like when you're not quite ready to burst out of it because you you know talking about the seasons of life like sometimes you're just in that season If you're in that grief. Um, could you talk a little bit about what what that recipe would look like for you.
13:16.89
Nevine
Right? Absolutely well. Um, you know in some ways I always start. It doesn't even matter what someone's issue is. 1 always starts the same way if I so if you use the metaphor that the body is the house. It doesn't matter if it's bitterness if it's grief. It's fear. The first thing I try to do is organize anything I can so if I know the windows are shut and they need to be open and that's easy. Well we open windows. And those are very specific type of breathing poses and you know techniques too in a funny way, get your arms up because that'll open your windows and when you open your windows despite you you will get air right? So we start with the most basic things which is always we clean up as much as we can. Which is why it doesn't matter what your issue is because it's just in some ways how you can articulate it and also which gland maybe is making the most noise right? But of course the issue is everything because it's all part of the whole. So.
14:22.39
elenabox
Go ahead.
14:25.39
Nevine
And some ways we start with anything start anywhere. It doesn't matter where right? So the best place to always start is in the moment so one should look around right and then see what can I attend to and that's where the first thing is one can attend to.
14:34.40
elenabox
Um.
14:41.37
Nevine
Usually is learn how to wash your face brush your teeth again if you have that damage. You're still so sad then brush your teeth is the left if. You're righty if you're still incredibly sad when you wash your face change the temperature of the water right? um change the soap you use because. These are things 1 can do so the first chick is always the most doable. Yeah, then of course somebody still doesn't feel well then we go for the next round maybe cook them the meal maybe clean out the refrigerator because if you can't help yourself then you need others to help you. But eventually once you can help yourself then you can help others and that's why it's not just personal. It's the better organized and oriented you are in time and space. Um eventually the easier be to find joy because joy is quick. It is in the moment by recipes for joy or getting the cake out of the oven on time recipe for disaster is you know, wrong time and right so recipe for joy is you know, calibrating. Yeah, the proportions and recipe for disaster is.
15:43.53
elenabox
Um, yeah.
15:56.63
Nevine
Not following the recipe. So um, yes I think one has to make it very easy. My and that's why yeah, you just keep setting up conditions and you don't have to set up big conditions. You can't change the world yet. But.
15:58.88
elenabox
Um.
16:05.87
elenabox
Um, set up the right conditions.
16:13.74
Nevine
Everyone gets the exact same amount of time. So another big calendar I work with is ah the calendars of the year so I build calendars so I have a kotonni yogi calendar I built them every five you know every year for about 11 years and and they're out and after the season and I build a little. Ah, limited number right? But the idea is that a calendar is a canon of personal religion. So when you belong to religion you show up on their calendar and that's how you know I show up because this is our rituals but personal religion is personal time management and that is a big piece of yoga because eventually you have to know to imagine your breath. You have to know how to manage your season you have to know how to manage the clock you have to know how to manage your mind you have to know to manage your feelings and so these are the templates right? So no one is getting more time. Everyone's getting the same amount of time. So so much is. What can you attend to breathing is very easy to attend to because it's autonomic and sympathetic and that's why yoga works. It's because just say origami works um, good baking works because good techniques. Hold the joy. Ah.
17:31.00
elenabox
Wo Ah so many places I want to go to I have kind of a strange question before I'd love to get into more of the as and more of the tools afterwards. But I have sort of a strange question. Ah which is sort of something I've always been thinking for myself. Ah, do you believe that in order for us to access Greater states of Joy. Ah that we also need to be able to access the deeper ah sorrows of grief in order to reach those higher higher heights.
18:03.49
Nevine
So um, okay, so so when I build my sort of sphere of influence around me and how I can process where I am in the center and especially when I build it on these templates of. The maps I play with when you play with great nature. You're playing with the great polarities. So if there's life. There's death if there's winter. There's summer if there's you know North there south right? So you know the great polarities always belong to great nature. So there's some say first to know. Sort of the orientation of the great polarities. So for us, it's you know one 9 is the clariity of fired water to 8 is the clarity of seasons externally and internally of rising in spring and we map them when we're playing them by using the breath. So the breath. Well give you these meditative circuits right? But the first game is always great nature 3 and 7 are the polarities of dawn and dusk four and six are go to be the p plas of waking and sleeping right? 5 is going to be the clarity of center and one circumference. So first there's great Claris and then what happens. Is you position yourself in the middle of it so then move from clarity to trinity and trinity is when you mediate polarity which doesn't mean you go all the way to hotter all the way to cold which means that it's your job to know that you were in the middle between not only how the universe is always going to play polarty.
19:27.12
elenabox
You first.
19:37.70
Nevine
So if someone's gonna be born. They're going to die if there's gonna be day. There's gonna be a night but also that there's personal polarities like your personal house and your personal family and so everything about meditation is mediation. How are you going to mediate the polarities. So the beauty I think of the universe is. It's very informative even though in some ways it doesn't care if you mediate it is not careless and it allows you to have a lot of clues so you can mediate so when your corners don't ah meet eventually find out cause you cup doesn't hold water right? If you don't use time. Well. Eventuallyre going to find out because time is always 24 hours and yeah there are templates right? So you get to be in the middle and so with that said does everyone have to go so high or so low. No you have to know what's up there. What's down there and know what happens if you put your hand the fire. It's too hot. So. People who want too much Grace. We always say it's like you know too much water raining down you can eventually end up swampy put out your fire people have too much fire and they're going up right? Well eventually it's the pyric victory they're going to dry up. So now. How do you not dry up or swamp out. Well you have to be awake. And you have to have techniques and you have to put yourself in that position that um, you're the driver and the drivers and you um, go too fast slow down I'm going too slow speed up what's on my left. What's on I right? So that's why the techniques are orientation and organizing because life is hard.
21:12.14
Nevine
And there are people find joy. Um in very hard situations and people who can't find good situations.
21:21.00
elenabox
Wow Yes I'm so glad I asked that question so wonderful answer. Thank you? um.
21:25.56
Nevine
That's why say but you know a big goal for me. The biggest goal of practice because I didn't come to yoga through physical and I don't care about being a Yogi I care about being a powerful human being so I came to yoga because. Um, it was the age that was available. It was what was available for me to learn how to manipulate my mind body and breath to have a mystical experience without mortifying myself. Um, you can see divinity and find great joy by disembodying. But then no one's mining the vehicle.
21:59.63
elenabox
Remove.
22:01.44
Nevine
So I come to an age where the body's important the mind's important The breath's important. How am I going to hold it together So mental illness to me is a great defeat and the whole point of learning good technique is so that eventually techniques will help you not lose your mind because when you get disoiented. A good map will help you when your car runs out of gas Good technique can teach you out with the gas in the tank. Yeah so I think you have to do everything but the great joy ride is when your car is working well.
22:32.62
elenabox
Yeah, yeah.
22:39.34
Nevine
When you know how to drive it when you in the passenger knows how much time you have and where you want to go and you're on the way and everything on the checklist says yes I'm safe I have love right? I know where I'm going I'm not in in cars. So. We always say you don't meditate in a house on fire. So when people think you're going to meditate to calm down. It's the other way round you have to learn techniques to calm down so you can meditate and that's why in in buddhist techniques you learn Anipanana which is observations and then pranayama's breath manipulations. And they eventually get you into that state in your house. You have to learn how to clean it and open the windows flush the toilets. So at the garbage make a good meal and then you get to sit in it. You write in a in a house has the right temperature and I be your thyroid. Well fed that would be your you know pancreas right in a stable floor when it's raining outside that the rain isn't falling in that'd be your adrenals It's so conditional. No yeah.
23:53.80
elenabox
Um, Wow. Yes, yes, right.
23:53.57
Nevine
But doesn't mean everyone has to do it by themselves people need each other because you know you don't tune an instrument first you have to tune like tuning your body tunening with great nature and that's why the personal breaths get tuned to great nature breaths for the tonality right? Polarity's gonna give you the tuning forts. There's always life is always death right. But trinity is you've had to tune your instrument on those tuning forks. But once you have that then you want to know blake communally and that's why the great ode de joy is really the national anthem of Europe right? because ah, it's it's people in harmony not dissonance and each wants to tune the instrument.
24:13.87
elenabox
Um, ah.
24:32.71
Nevine
And know that you have to play with others but you also have to play well by yourself.
24:38.30
elenabox
Right first tune yourself take care of yourself first gag o I love it? yes yes, yes, yes yes yes oh goodness did I just want to break out into song. Um, ok right? We all, it's it's always there. Um, but it's so true I mean I think.
24:45.44
Nevine
Need to. But.
24:52.93
elenabox
You bring? Ah we bring up such fantastic ah points which is really just it doesn't mean that you don't go to those extremes you know in your life it you may get yourself off track at some point but it's learning the tools to bring yourself back to Center. Um, and it's not a bad thing that sometimes we get a little imbalanced sometimes it's normal where human things are going to happen. But that's why we have this system right.
25:11.73
Nevine
Absolutely yes, well in the same way that Wuwei means effortlus effort in the Hindu narrative The same term is sort of played with the word upaya and upay means skillful means because you have to be very skillful to. Um, catch when you're going the wrong direction and stop and Reroute. You have to be very skillful to use time so that rather than waste it you figure out how to make that you know segue. So um, so also In. Hindu Theory the term upaya and politics means cunning because you have to be very sneaky and very cunning to be skillful and that's why yoga is about being powerful. It's not about goodness. It is not colonial. It is not Hindu. It is really how am I going to be the alchemist that manipulates mind body and breath so that I own the magic and the biggest magic is to be concentrat in radiant upload your circuits.
26:12.90
elenabox
Um, yes yes, yes yes I'm learning this lesson right? and as we speak because you know I'm here in Paris and I consider myself ah during the day I'm like this ninja I'm very cunning I go out in all black and i. Sort of observe everything and I'm going here and I'm going there and I'm making all these connections and I'm loving it and I'm allowing myself to be in that river and be in that flow and I also see ah you know of course in Paris we have the opportunity if we want to drink wine and smoke cigarettes all day outside in cafes which I love and going out and dancing and all of that. I love it. I love it. I love it and then you know, ah, if I take it too far in that direction. My body says hey hold on a second where are you doing like you're you're right like you're out of balance.
26:55.12
Nevine
Right? Well, that's why it's good. Yes, um, yeah when I first started to do modes. Yes, a lot of yoga I went to the hindus because that's the first yoga that was available in our cultures in the west after colonialism and you know it's very steeped in. Ah, in a language and a mythology and part of the language is very much that um the body is the temple and you keep it holy but of course then you guys have the temple and it's not a very ecological concept and then I went to the taoists and they said ah your body's your house make a mess clean it up. Don't trash your house so much. You can't clean in it. But it's not a museum you have to know how to clean the kitchen you have to know how to you know play with the pipes and that um I learned that forty years ago and that really revolutionized my practice because I realized oh yes, it's about.
27:32.10
elenabox
Exactly.
27:48.99
Nevine
That self-re responsibility of how do I mediate it now of course um, that's not owned by one culture or language people who eventually have good techniques know be vigilant.
28:02.78
elenabox
Um, right right? Yes, you fluid and and I think it's like not not being too. Ah awesome.
28:05.67
Nevine
And you know be fluid and you know you have to do it all? yeah.
28:13.46
elenabox
Dear, you know not going too far in the other direction of absolutely nothing. No way I'm just going to be in my cave and not experience anything like I'm here I Want to be in the River I Want to be experiencing things but in order to have that like sense of that cunning like this ninja that I'm embodying these days like I have to really stay in my center and make sure. I Don't go too far in either direction because I like you said before it's like I need to be able to be in Harmony in order to be of service here. You know if I'm if I'm too.
28:31.40
Nevine
5
28:36.71
Nevine
And in some ways the universe won't lie to you So That's the generosity and that's why calendars don't lie Bodies. Don't lie mind's lie but you know that's what we do yoga with with form because form disembodied. You can fly. But in the body you have to deal with my feet hurt right? Ah ages real in the body might not in your astral plane. But obviously it's real in the body. My car is this age that car is that age. How much get? Yeah, so yeah I think um, you have to really.
28:56.89
elenabox
Um.
29:08.93
elenabox
Yeah, right? yeah.
29:16.10
Nevine
Developed lots of techniques and I think people are very um, skillful. Especially today because the world is open source and everyone is literate and anybody can learn anything they want so I do want to just go through the breadth of the season for a minute just because this is very easy and um.
29:26.72
elenabox
Um, yes.
29:33.40
Nevine
And you know it is really in some ways the asset doesn't matter what people do doesn't matter if they're doing palottis if they're doing gyrotonics they're doing gym. They're doing ballet as long as you do it? Well you know there's this wheel. Mystical experience of making the effort and being in the body manipulating the chemistry and that's all yoga but the real game eventuals the breath because that's the pump. That's the air in the tires. That's the you know the spirit driving the car. So I love the breath of the season. So I'm just gonna say what the bread the season is. Right? So the breath of the seasons is image that when you inhale inhalation is always the breath of spring so you use your imagination. You think that you're inhaling in a sense from left to right in front of you like an arc of a rainbow from your left hip moving up to the right side above you and that is inhaling breath of spring. Holding your breath is always known as the breadth of summer because that's when you ripen on the Tai Chi and you're the fruit on you know the tree of the universe and you are being fed by the greater whole exhaling is the breath of autumn and that is when you harvest and you remember and you reflect and you deal. With the feelings of memory and harvest and the whole thing and being empty as the breath of winter and then after winter spring rises again. So it is very revolutionary when you are in the midst of grief and sadness which is a lung thing right.
30:59.76
elenabox
My.
31:01.54
Nevine
Where when you're in the midst of Anger you're playing through the liver and when you're in the midst of fear you're losing your equilibrium and that's kidneys These are all like clues like oh I can't open my windows Well, that means the structure in your building won't open or.
31:15.30
elenabox
Right? yeah.
31:18.38
Nevine
Yeah, you know my plumbing isn't working Well that means water is going to flip you out So very elementally right to know that if you inhale and spring is rising and hold you breath and Summer is ripening and exhaling arm is as descending being empty as winter and you do it again and again and again. Eventually you build this circuitry that allows you know that everything is inhaling. Everything is holy right? So I Really love that because that's how you deal in the midst you change your temperature of water when you wash your face just a little.
31:53.90
elenabox
So.
31:54.91
Nevine
You change the soap so is the scent that doesn't have the same feelings. Yeah I think everything you? Yeah yeah, you do everything.
31:59.27
elenabox
Right. I Think you bring up something really important which is sort of what we've been speaking to which is really taking ownership and coming back into that sort of that sovereignty of this is my body and and. It's my duty to learn how to take care of it because I feel like often in our society we have you know these quick fixes take this pill you know and they'll make everything better and and giving ah giving our power away to somebody else, but it can be as simple as Breath. You know if you have nothing else if the one tool you have is breath.
32:23.27
Nevine
That.
32:34.90
Nevine
Less yes and sent. You know that's why and people can just go outside and do a meditation of scent smell the air for 20 minutes you know people have been taught I think that yoga and meditation.
32:36.10
elenabox
The inhale and Exhale you can discover so much just within that.
32:45.83
elenabox
The her the her.
32:54.33
Nevine
Is um is not as practical as it really is or is doable like meditation. You don't meditate that's on fire they're trying to sit down meditate to calm down but really no, but you can breathe to calm down and you can be you know, just a you be taught to drive the car.
32:57.31
elenabox
Right? right.
33:13.50
Nevine
All gas station work. The car is the same thing as breath work. You know so when your car starts running out. You have to really know how to be your gas station. Yeah.
33:18.58
elenabox
Um, yeah, yeah.
33:24.67
elenabox
Right? right? and I love that you brought this up too is that people also have a lot of misconceptions about yoga you know and I tell people like oh I'm a yoga teacher. They're like oh I'm so inflexible I could never possibly do. It's like guys. It's it's it's it's ah it's so much more than than putting your foot behind your head.
33:33.23
Nevine
Um, right.
33:41.99
elenabox
You know, although that's fun at a party too for sure. Ah, but um and I'd love I'd love to hear from you. Um, what if you know think about the person listening who perhaps they've never been to a yoga class in their life. You know, um and I and I also know it's important as everything you said before it's like there's so many other.
33:42.60
Nevine
Right? right.
33:59.58
elenabox
Techniques Other you know you could be riding a bicycle you could be ice sking. You could be doing all these other things that bring you into that sense of Union that yoga that oneness that kind of flow state. But I'd love to speak specifically to yoga you know for the person who is total newbie thinks they have to put their foot behind their head in order to be a yogi.
34:15.53
Nevine
Um, right right? absolutely.
34:17.88
elenabox
But is going through. You know a deep ah deep ah time of of change or grief like what other techniques ah tools would you offer them.
34:27.90
Nevine
So um, what I've always done because my yoga also is not classically hindu and so when people talk about yoga and my yoga is very influenced by. Yeah, the pancentric narrative and western mythology and chinese theory and so my yogic is not particularly hindu. But I like to explain that all yoga is music and um, everyone's playing with the exact same game. Everyone's got a body. Everyone has to figure out. Yeah, so the body's gonna be the instrument. The mind is gonna be the musician and the breath is gonna be the tone. So once you basically learn doesn't matter who's yoga right? But a yoga that teaches you how to tune your instrument and play your instrument then my next game of course is knowing how to read the score because I like maps. And once you I read a score I play. Anybody's yoga because just like a good chef once they really understand what food is and proportions are and their oven is they can read. Anybody's recipe know what they're going to get so it's never a guess I'll read like an estanga practice or I'll read a a meditation practice and. You know a Manu practice and you know you could break down exactly how many syllables how many are sharp. How many are flat is this a fast piece is this a slow piece so that's why eventually it doesn't matter what you play well matter that you know how to play your instrument right? and you know how to read the score by. You know how to tune it. So.
35:54.50
Nevine
I Know how to play with enough metaphor. That's very personal that once I have to have the discussion with somebody I can always find the right metaphor that allows them to use the techniques I play with to achieve that.
36:09.89
elenabox
Yeah, oh.
36:12.51
Nevine
And for me, it's a yoga practice right? But ah, but my yoga would not classify particularly as hindu. That's why you know when you know we're playing cattona for people in their cervi katona they always have to have something else under their belt because you don't own anything until you know how to do more than 1 thing. So you're a musician when you can play more than one piece of music. You're a very good musician when you can play 2 instruments. You can be very literate with one language you gain when you can play with 2 languages so in some ways. I know not how to be exclusive with yoga but to be very inclusive because today you don't need a lineage. You don't need. You're not Beholden somebody to get material like a guild in the middle ages. You can go online open source get anybody's recipes. So now the most important thing is can you eat them. And that's why you have now to read numbers. You have to know how to read the codes because otherwise doesn't mean anything or and even if you can read it. You have to do right? So yeah, yeah.
37:21.22
elenabox
Yeah, yeah.
37:24.16
Nevine
So yoga it's criy so I don't defend yoga. It's just another modallion today young people know how to do everything. They've gone to yoga since they're in kindergarten when I started do yoga. There were maybe 2 yoga suits you could find and it was still. You know not mainstream but ah.
37:26.93
elenabox
Um, yeah.
37:41.92
Nevine
Every child does yoga. Every University has yoga. So now it's part of their physical narrative and psychological narrative but it doesn't stand on its own because you have to do everything Yogis aren't well-adjusted just because they do yoga.
37:55.67
elenabox
Um, a home.
37:58.26
Nevine
Ah Carpenter is in a good carpenter just because he hammers nails but there are a lot of great ones. So and so am I going off too far in Leftfield sorry.
38:04.78
elenabox
True yes, very true and no I love it. I love it. There's just this other question that I have I have a couple of questions. But first I think um, you know based off of what you just shared. Do you think it's important for a person. First or or in conjunction with like beginning if they're just beginning and they're you know, opening up Youtube and they're like okay I'm going to try a yoga practice. Do you think first it's important for people to have an understanding of basic of the basic map of their bodies and where their organs are because you know when we talk about like grief in the lungs or you know.
38:38.66
Nevine
By by.
38:40.11
elenabox
Some people don't even know where their liver is you know? So when we talk about like anger in the liver. They're like I've never felt my liver in my life I'm like gosh I'm talking to my liver 5 times a day like I think it's all important.
38:48.00
Nevine
Right? Well no I don't think makes any difference I Think the only thing that matters is people have an experience of a meal right? So you sit down and life is experiential and so they don't need to know that Oh if they eat this. It has iron in it and if they this is going to.
38:55.78
elenabox
Yeah, okay.
39:02.61
elenabox
Yeah.
39:06.47
Nevine
Strength in their eyes all that they need to know is they wake up in the morning the next day and not only did they sleep well and they're satisfied but they had good bowel movements and they enjoy it I mean it is. It's like with yoga if you do a practice that is too hot too tight.
39:14.19
elenabox
Here.
39:24.10
Nevine
Um, you know because 3 hours later you're angry at somebody if you do a practice that is too insipid right? and too weak. You want to fall asleep right? So nothing is lying if you take the cake out too early if you take a cake out too late. So the fact that experience. And that's why joy is experience. It's in the now right? It's not like fulfillment that you build on memory. You don't build on memory of joy. You're accessing. You know it's like the current right? So um, no, but. I do think that some people because everybody is curious and everybody knows something somebody will come and taste the cake and go I want how to make that by I want to see how they did then the oven I can make the cake better. So you know you know. What an experience peaks is your ability if you're healthy to go deeper develop more curiosity but not everybody. Yeah yeah, you know 10 people come in the room and one is coming in for 1 reason. It's like.
40:29.28
elenabox
Ah, oh.
40:34.28
Nevine
10 people come to the same store but no, 1 ne's coming in for the same reason and hopefully everybody goes out with something they came in for and maybe something else and maybe not and be right? and maybe not at which point you know.
40:42.34
elenabox
Right? I think that's it. It's that something else right? and maybe not yeah yeah.
40:52.40
Nevine
I have to be responsible for my store and say ah does my store of things that I want to sell? Yeah, so yes, that's why metaphor I think the big building Blockks of of good code is knowing how to read numbers because alchemy is very number oriented and that's why.
40:59.23
elenabox
Ah.
41:10.49
Nevine
All these practices are practice of trinity right mind Body breath you know inner outer in the space between and you know these are all mystical practices. So I think yeah, it's good code not to read remembers if you went to a ah menu. It's a good code to know what the prices mean right? and then you should be able to read the letters now to pull off the page. So I Know what an oana means I know how to pull it off the page so where I'm doing a wheel.. It's not to do a wheel.. It's not to just look at that Letter. It is to know what that letter has.
41:32.43
elenabox
Um.
41:48.17
Nevine
In it or you know yes so it's how to make things Multidimensional Yoga is very multidimensional.
41:54.27
elenabox
Yeah, and it always will be. That's the reality of it right? We can't just pinpoint and say it's this. It's that it's It's always going to be this ah multidimensional thing. Yeah.
42:01.50
Nevine
Right? And I think you know with the whole not say me too movement but with that understanding with the open source network that a lot of systems are brilliant. It's people who are flawed right? and so one has to remember that yoga works. Knowing how to manipulate your mind your buying your breath works baking well works cleaning a house and then meditating an asset's not on fire works right? But I have deal with the person. The individual has to make it work and that's why just as someone teaches yoga doesn't mean they have virtue. Ah. You know and that's so important to remember because it is about being powerful when I used to read the mayanas texts and they talk about the great cities. Great powers of yoga which are very mystical which you know I love because they're like reading the Marvel comic books they're yeah they're magical.
42:51.48
elenabox
Um.
42:54.74
elenabox
Oh yeah.
42:58.91
Nevine
But the big powers when you come back to earth they are can you make time go quickly when you hate what you're doing. Can you make time. Go slowly when you love what you're doing. Can you find joy in the midst of the grief and sadness can you develop your compassion when there's so much reason to be bitter. Can you find your safety in the midst of instability. So now. These are the great powers and so like why do you play music because it becomes powerful to um, know how to use time where otherwise you might be bored eventually make new friends because you know eventually you find peers who play at your level. So these are the powers. It's not and you do the asana but and Astin is changed by fashion. So what we consider western wrestling is half of the ayen asanas you know what? what we think of now as Tai Chi and
43:42.81
elenabox
Her.
43:55.82
elenabox
Right? yes.
43:56.70
Nevine
Vinyasin is dance by because it's the integrity of the individual using all these techniques today. Anybody can bake more than one cuisine.
44:10.59
elenabox
And what a beautiful world. We live in that we have that ability that that we are able to be informed by all of these different systems that we can begin to bake this cake when people are like you know, ah well, what's your style like phof. But.
44:15.73
Nevine
Ah.
44:22.24
elenabox
Ah, do you want to travel the whole world with me for a minute and I'll introduce you to all of my teachers and all the places and all the things that have informed me um to be here now and share this with you like Okay, yeah, there's so much right.
44:23.90
Nevine
Why.
44:30.45
Nevine
Beautiful right? I I like to teach breathing practice and then I say okay this is a practice that I've been doing so I've been playing with very specific practices that you know I do every day and they take 25 minutes because I'm into speed I'm into like shouldn't take too long to bake my cake. And I know what I want to achieve and I know that 20 minutes I should be able to manipulate my whole chemistry. But then I always say then go and do 5 other people's practices and then figure something out because you never go home and just do someone else's recipe. You know.
44:48.71
elenabox
Um.
45:02.48
elenabox
Um, right right.
45:06.60
Nevine
You have your own recipes already and you add and then boom right? You make something that is inspired and that's why the goal we have everything is that inspiration that allows one to find the joy. Yeah.
45:18.73
elenabox
Find that joy baby and that's the thing too is like you know learning from other people's recipes so that you can literally be anywhere you know I like to be if I'm you know doing physical movement I like to just have my little mat here on the floor and and I'm putting together recipes from all around the world From. For my whole life. My whole life experience and I just it comes out of me. Um, and and that's it's so it's as simple as that is just taking the time to just.
45:37.24
Nevine
Absolutely.
45:43.80
Nevine
Yes, well because you have technique and this is the other you know, conundrum and fun part is the better technique. You have the more fun you have and that's what if you're a lousy swimmer. It's not so much fun to be in the pool.
45:56.67
elenabox
Um.
46:01.50
Nevine
If you're a lousy skier. It's not so much fun to go down that mountain right? If you're a lousy reader. It's not fun to read and that's why you know when someone says they don't like doing something that you know is very virtuous. It's probably because they don't do it well yet and that's why you know.
46:01.66
elenabox
Um, and.
46:04.42
elenabox
Your home.
46:15.95
elenabox
Oh.
46:21.22
Nevine
It's a teaching game in a funny way. It's like oh no, no this is how you measure this is how you calibrate this is and that's why people need to be talking technique but then what they do with the technique is very personal. Yeah.
46:33.24
elenabox
Exactly I mean that's really it is it. It's between you and your connection with the divine with the the space around you with your body then you can start to really tap in and and allow it to teach you.
46:40.73
Nevine
Um, yeah.
46:46.83
elenabox
Um, and's and it really is that co-creative process. It's not just going to a class and being like okay I'm going into verer bedrass a 1 like okay this is Verer Baddras and a what you know it's like how do I feel when I'm alone in my in my space when when it feels like the house is on fire and I need to.
46:54.84
Nevine
Right.
47:03.43
elenabox
I Want to come back into that state of peace and so that I can eventually access joy.
47:04.34
Nevine
Right out of right? What techniques and the first ones are very easy. You know play with that metaphor that the body is a house and what would you do if your house is a mess right? and you don't clean all one but you can open up a window you can.
47:15.20
elenabox
Who.
47:23.34
Nevine
You know change the smell and that's why you have to do everything but you have to you have to do yeah hurt somewhere and but that's why did everyone do this and that no just start wear every war and do something.
47:32.70
elenabox
Start somewhere be small. Ah yeah, right, right? and it doesn't You know you don't have to learn how to bake a fivet tier cake overnight. You know you're not going to be on the British bake off you know tomorrow. But.
47:46.92
Nevine
My right? and that's why I like counts in my practice because I know when I have a lot of time. Well I'll time a practice that it's like baking a cake that's going to take me an hour and a half. But I know if I only have 10 minutes I know how to make a cookie that takes spent 10 minutes
47:49.92
elenabox
Just start just start.
48:05.80
Nevine
And I get just as much joy in a quick practice that takes 10 minutes then in practice takes an hour and probably more joy when I have the anxiety than I don't have an hour yeah Yeah
48:17.61
elenabox
Right? Yeah, yeah, just take 10 minutes guys oh it's beautiful. Oh there's 2 there's 2 final questions I really want to ask you I mean they could be long winded. Ah because first I mean I really wanted to ask you about the importance of play and what play means to you. It's a big one. It's a big one. Um.
48:35.46
Nevine
Ah I love that? Okay, yes, well now, um, by ah one and I'm going to bring it back to also joy in your glances and sensations because it's feelings right? And so. I like to play with the idea that your body when we put it on that grid warp and woof of basically like ah you know time and space. But we're putting it on the grid that is like a tennis racket and the first thing you always want is a body a tennis raet that is well tense and that's why you don't tens your racket by feel. You tenseify measure because feelings don't always measure up and sometimes you have to take a lot more pressure than you think right? So there's a lot of game and learning how to take the pressure and do what you need do to have the body. Do its thing right? The second thing you need right is a pressurized ball but and the ball is the mine that's buoyant that's well adjusted that really is not tangled up and then what you have to do in tennis is make the contact you can have that ping of joy. Well that ping of joy is really when you know how to play? well. When you have the right tension when you have the right vigilance when you can put it together and you play well so I like to think about playing as knowing how to play well with your mind and your body and your breaths you can get your ping of joy and once you can play well then the trick is you want to play with other people that play. Well.
50:02.25
Nevine
Good tennis players play with good tennis players and that to me is important because it's important to know that once you're a good player. You're going to find the joy of playing with other good players because there's a lot of fun when you know how to play? well. Right? And so um, just like in music. Once you know how to play your instrument. Well there's great joy and a lot of fun in playing with others but you don't get as much fun if you don't play well and that's why again, the first responsibility is learn how to measure up learn how to. Handle the tension learn out and make yourself buoyant learn how to make the contact so that you can play well because then you get all the magic of play. How's that.
50:49.20
elenabox
Gorgeous, Gorgeous gorgeous.
00:00.00
elenabox
So that leads me to the last question of this wonderful interview Dear Naveen and it can be a long answer if you have a long answer. That's okay too and it can also be completely simple. So I want you to think back to a moment in your life where. You know our teacher grief came to visit you maybe it was death. Maybe it was grief. Maybe it was loss whatever form that grief came to you at this time in your life and I'd love for you to offer us 3 tools. 3 things that really helped you through that experience and it can be physical objects. It can be an idea it can be a song you know it can really be anything but if you could have like a little toolkit like a little bag that you would carry with you like this is what helped me through this deep experience of grief. What would it be. And you can take your time.
00:55.82
Nevine
Yes, I'm trying to think because I also don't want to minimize grief right? Um, in that right? So I'm trying to think of one of you know, moments of great grief and.
01:00.36
elenabox
Of course, not no yeah.
01:13.26
Nevine
Yeah, and of course the first problem with that is that grief is comparative in some ways. It's different when the grief is losing a parent than losing a child right? and because of that difference. Um, the grief is tinged with different things. Right? So losing a parent grief is very different than losing a child grief and so then the tools to be used are the tools I use because my grief to be losing parents um are different right? because.
01:49.50
Nevine
Part of it is being able to connect to the greater and knowing that ah parents should precede their children right? and that parents live on and their children. So in some ways there's a lot of philosophy right? And so it's also seeing.
02:07.18
Nevine
How the seasons work and how the nature is appropriate right? But then I think that my big tools are the ones that I've really come up with and said to you which is that I know how to play with ritual. So the first thing I always do is I like handle my I do that even for when my friends.
02:14.59
elenabox
Um, yeah, but.
02:26.79
Nevine
You know, have their grief if I'm in contact I make the deal that I will light a candle and by light a candle every time I won't by I remember right? So yeah, that is a real ritual right? knowing how to play with fire I play with fire a lot and I like to make fires even outside. And by virtue of that. Every fire is always connected to every other fire I've made right? Um,, there's I think it's also of course memory because everything is memory and so.
02:50.85
elenabox
Yes.
03:01.43
Nevine
Ah, the formula for lungs is grief sadness courage. Memory Nostalgia right? and these are classic Chinese formulas in the sense that when you get scared you end up peeing in your pants. So That's kidneys. But when you get said you sigh and memories are equated to the season of Autumn. So. These are formulas but ah in some ways I Guess that's what I do I go to my formulas and I manipulate my formulas I also use um, art and Creativity. So I'm very into um.
03:23.54
elenabox
Right.
03:37.92
Nevine
Using my time creatively. So I built tepe outside with my sticks and woods and so I bonded nature a lot I will send you a picture on my tepe right? Yeah right? So it is really that I use my time. Um, well.
03:46.40
elenabox
I Would love that. Yes.
03:56.98
Nevine
Um, another piece. It's not even grief because I I ah I It's not that I don't grieve but my grief is not my dominant um emotion that I express my feelings with.
04:14.76
elenabox
Might be.
04:17.47
Nevine
So for me, there's a lot more remembrance than grief right? and because of that I know the sense I know how to put myself in places that allow me to remember the best things right? So um.
04:35.15
Nevine
You know I know which like tea places I always would go to with my family so I know every time I have tea I'm with my family. So for me, it is cross-referencing it is associations and then I guess part of me then stops there because I know that um. The trick is not to be consumed with 1 note or even with 1 emotion and that's why I like to play like you know with that instrument of mine and knowing that you tune all your glands that you own all your techniques. So um I spent a lot of time with gratitude.
05:03.54
elenabox
Know right.
05:12.80
Nevine
Right? So yes, by yes.
05:14.12
elenabox
Um, yeah, it's a big one I mean it's hard. It's hard any time to say hey what are. 3 things I mean of course it's so many things there's so many different tools that we that we that we use when we're going through these huge processes and I think you offered some really valuable ones that I resonate with for sure I've got my candle burn I've got my candle burning with me all the time because to me it it invites spirit in it makes it ritualizes.
05:35.82
Nevine
Bang.
05:37.99
elenabox
Basically anything I'm doing even if I'm sitting working on my computer. Um, but I I love the the idea of you know the gratitude practice is like if if if you're in if you're in that moment of deep grief is is it can be the the most challenging thing at times but just get out a a pen you know piece of paper and a pen and.
05:40.18
Nevine
By.
05:56.77
elenabox
Write 10 things. This is what I'm great. Great day and coming back into that sense even and you'll find you might think well I've got nothing to be grateful for my life is crap. You know this person died I lost my job I lost my house all of these things but you'll find them. They're there right.
05:56.96
Nevine
Yes.
06:11.50
Nevine
Yes, yes, it is so hard. It is hard. That's why um, one really has to everything one can to be healthy, but because the healthy you are the better you can deal.
06:14.55
elenabox
Yeah.
06:20.38
elenabox
It's yeah.
06:25.20
elenabox
But right, but.
06:27.27
Nevine
And that's why you know one of the best advices is really, you know if you have vision if you're competent if you're competent then really make sure that you take care of yourself because you can't achieve your visions if your health falls Apart. And your competency's worthless onces your health falls apart and that's why it really is important to take care of oneself. So you know, maybe in the midst of grief and sadness part of the courage is to be capable and be self-re responsible and take care of oneself because.
06:47.80
elenabox
Okay.
07:04.14
Nevine
Maybe alter so much grief and San is is that one is left behind because one doesn't grieve in the same way for somebody who's gone because now they're off the page in the sense. It's you know it's a dimensional thing. Everyone else to come and go. But it's the ones.
07:17.63
elenabox
Oh yeah.
07:21.46
Nevine
On our dimension that have to deal with mental illness and defeat and the bitterness and the unfairness and that's why how to deal by being on the page and that's you know, use time. Well play good games. 1 of the first games I did in yoga.
07:34.24
elenabox
Has.
07:41.10
Nevine
When I was 21 and I studied a lot of guyef and suspensky material and all about not being habitual and you know how to wake up was I realized well because I'm a right I would brush my teeth lefty.
07:50.53
elenabox
Right.
07:52.45
Nevine
And because I'm a right I would eat my meals lefty and just by virtue doing that it was so ritualized that every time I did it I would get a bit of joy because it's not natural. It's not habitual. It's not you know it always has a little sporg of oh look that right? and so now after. More than 45 years of doing this stuff. Um I always brush lefty I can always brush right? E too. So it's not like 1 dimin is the other but I have choice and choice brings you back to being in the middle meditating mediating so one does have choice in the midst. Of grief and sadness to open windows to become capable one has choice when 1 is flat to go to the gas station put air in the tires and it's easier to make good choices when one is well and when one is well 1 makes better choices. So and. 1 has to be fortunate and graceful and grateful that you know that ah that one makes good choices and you make better choices when you know how to read menus when you're literate so we're back to skills that allow you eventually to make good cakes and that's why. You make better choices when you have better techniques so up your technique when you're sad. Ah you know? Yes, you're not gay what you want or you're very ah despondent bake a cake and bring somebody else or learn to just bake one so that your house smells better.
09:12.64
elenabox
Um, sure. Yes, yes, yes, and.
09:27.85
elenabox
He is. Ah.
09:31.29
Nevine
Yes, but again hard to say when you don't feel well and that's why that first thing is really you know make good contact because contact ignites the conversation. Ah.
09:32.38
elenabox
Um, right.
09:42.11
elenabox
And it can be as simple as you know if you haven't showered or brushed your teeth in three days because you've been depressed and sad and bad like start with brushing your teeth and and maybe you switch the toothbrush over to your left hand and build some build some new neural networks some pathways there can be as simple as that right.
09:53.85
Nevine
Yes, yes, right? Yes, yes, it's ah it is learning how to play with a lot of um tricks and games and that's why building calendars always fun because they don't lie.
10:01.54
elenabox
Um.
10:09.60
elenabox
Right.
10:11.83
Nevine
Yeah, oh what plans did I make did I follow through oh I actually forgot that I wasn't happy last week why let me look at the calendar you know and that way you should get you can so I like to make things doable.
10:23.40
elenabox
Yes, oh my God Yeah um.
10:29.47
Nevine
And I like to know what can I really do and that's why I like to play with the metaphor that someone can understand because they can then process it and have an experience with it where if the language is too arcane or foreign. Um, Ah then you just have to Parrot language. Yeah.
10:55.82
elenabox
Um, Wow. Wow Wow Wow. Well we do have to wrap up the conversation because we really could talk forever but I thought we um I'd love for you I'd love. Um, ah for you to let anybody know.
11:00.51
Nevine
Forever. Thank you.
11:09.82
elenabox
Um, where they can find you where they can ah buy the calendar for this year if you have any fun events coming up. You want to tell people about.
11:19.77
Nevine
Oh you're so sweet. Well um, you know, basically we we gave up our in-house studio this year after like 38 years of having studio spaces maybe forty something years right and so everything now for me is that neural network of that open source online world so find us honest and katonny yoga right? and everything connects to that and then um.
11:37.86
elenabox
Um, oh yeah, but.
11:48.29
Nevine
You know my real thing as I said is that the world is very available and anybody can go and see what's out there. So you know take advantage. Yes.
11:59.70
elenabox
Yeah, take advantage.
12:02.35
Nevine
That's where I'm found but and I you know will all take advantage because it's privileged to be literate. Yeah yeah.
12:08.58
elenabox
Yeah, oh yes, oh yes and it's all there for you guys. So we'll we'll add everything into the show notes. So that people can find you and also if you are listening dear listener chances are there is a Katona yoga teacher. Um in your area because really naveen has spread her magic. All around the world. So yeah, that's thank you. Thank you? Thank you for being the gift that you are and thank you for joining in on the conversation today. It's been an absolute pleasure.
12:28.68
Nevine
Yes, find us and then you know and then ah teach us things to because it's so inspiring. Yeah yeah.
12:43.00
Nevine
And thank you and then you know um, have fun um in your days out there being a ninja her So great Bo take.
12:49.66
elenabox
We Beyon So ok, we no problem for me all right ladies and gentlemen. We ah Bonjo I Hope you have a good day as well and Tuesday listen us out there. Oh see. Um.
13:00.65
Nevine
Thank you huh.
13:05.43
elenabox
And I will go and have a umver de vann rouge for you Naveen tonight? Oh yes, just for you. Oh myness. Ah yes, just for you. People will say well why why? you having this wine and say oh that's for Naveen. It's just for her. Yeah, exactly.
13:07.57
Nevine
Oh yes, was for me for me. Thank you good for me. Thank you writing to be invite right? We get to telegraphically? yeah.
13:24.95
elenabox
Well what we use our our cities are our magical yogic powers So that you'll feel the wine coming into you.
13:25.66
Nevine
Thank you had said you gotta I absolutely will and then I'll present you to that? Yes, thank you.
13:35.31
elenabox
Ah, ah, gosh. Yes, yes oh my goodness all right? Well, that being said, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for tuning in this has been another episode of the ode to joy podcast.
